Does Homey Pro need APP’s for - Matter over Thread - Matter over Wi-Fi

Apps
,
1

A - LINKIND - Light Bulbs - Matter over Wi-FI

These - LINKIND - Matter over WI-FI - Light Bulbs are sold at a - GREAT PRICE
so I would like to use them in - Homey Pro 2023.

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B - LINKIND - APP - Not Available - But NOT Required

@Dijker - Thanks for the link to Item 1

  1. URL - ATHOM SUPPORT DOCUMENT - Matter (Beta) for Homey Pro (Early 2023)

  2. I did search the APP store - for an APP - for LINKIND
    as I mistakenly thought an APP would be necessary. Now SOLVED - See Item C below.

  3. Athom support document above - does CONFIRM that
    Matter over THREAD - products do NOT require an APP.

  4. Athom support document above - does NOT specifically mention - Matter over WI-FI
    I am requesting Athom to add some notes on this to the document to clarify the position.

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C - Matter over Wi-Fi - Does NOT require an APP

  1. I have now received some Community Feedback - see threads below
    which would indicate that - Matter over Wi-Fi - does NOT need an APP.

  2. So the - LINKIND Wi-Fi Light Bulbs mentioned above
    should just work with Homey right out of the box - without any need for an APP.

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D - ZIGBEE - Cannot Directly Work with Matter

  1. Previously, I had thought that there might be a possibility of - Matter over ZIGBEE

  2. AI Dot - Blog says that Zigbee Devices are not directly compatible with Matter devices

  3. URL - Zigbee Devices are not directly compatible with Matter devices - AI DOT - Blog Post.

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How To Use Matter

Connecting a Matter device can be done using the Homey Web App and the Homey Mobile App.
:bulb:It is not possible to install apps for Matter devices, Homey Pro will figure out the capabilities of the device without installing any apps.

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And when you tested them and they work with homey, please add them here:
[LIST] Does it Matter and Work over IP (NOT Thread)

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Hi Geurt - @Dijker - I do not know who at Athom is able to update their Official Support Pages

  1. But if Athom were to make some small changes to the Matter (Beta) support document…
  2. It would make it clearer for the Homey community.
  3. It would make it clearer for new customers trying to learn about Homey.
  4. And would reduce posts which are not necessary.
  5. Please would you be kind enough to forward this on as I don’t have an Athom contacts list.

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Matter over Wi-Fi . . . APP’s Required ?

On Tue 16-Jan-2024 - I uploaded a POST - 101346

  1. About whether - Matter over Wi Fi - needed an APP
    Answer is that - NO APP is Required

  2. I also asked about whether
    Matter over ZIGBEE - was possible - Answer is that ZigBee will need a Separate Hub.

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Athom support page only mentions - “Matter over Thread”

The standard Community RESPONSE to my question is as shown below:

  1. Points users to Athom’s - OFFICIAL - Homey Pro - Matter Support Page
  2. Matter (Beta) for Homey Pro (Early 2023)
  3. The support page - URL above - is very clear on Thread - as stated below
  4. Homey Pro can connect to - Matter over Thread - devices.

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Athom support page makes no mention of - ZigBee or Wi-Fi.

  1. There is a good paragraph on the Athom support page covering - Matter over THREAD.

  2. There is - not a paragraph covering - Matter over Wi-Fi.

  3. No paragraph saying that - Matter over ZIGBEE. Is NOT possible.
    See separate thread in the community forum - I will ask ATHOM - to add clarification
    This is because - ZigBee can only work on Matter - using a - Matter BRIDGE.
    .

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cc @Emile

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@Dijker - Pease can you forward this suggestion to Athom

  • ATHOM - Please could you consider updating the - Matter (Beta) - support document
    with an updated Paragraph as per my suggestions below.

How To Use Matter

  1. Delete the heading - How to Use Matter

  2. And replace it with a new heading - Apps are NOT Required - for Matter Devices

  3. I believe that a revised heading - would make the message - much clearer.

  4. The really important text message - Item 5 below - is hidden in SMALL print
    so many users who only skim read - may miss this text - I personally did not read this properly.

  5. :bulb: It is not possible to install apps for Matter devices,
    Homey Pro will figure out the capabilities of the device without installing any apps.

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NOTES

  1. Could update both the MAIN HEADING and the SMALL TEXT
  2. Could be be as shown at the bottom of this thread.
  3. This is only a suggestion and is not in any way a criticism.
  4. It is intended to be helpful and make the position clearer for ALL users.
  5. Hopefully this would reduce the number of posts from users who do NOT understand.
  6. It took me a bit of research - before I understood Athom’s messaging on Matter & APPs.
  7. I suspect other users may be - as confused as I was.
  8. Even after I uploaded this post - 101346 - I did not get any clarification back.
  9. The community - pointed towards - the Matter (Beta) - Athom Document
  10. The document did not answer my original question - as it does NOT cover - Item 11 below
  11. Matter over Wi-Fi. Also Athom do not state that - Matter over ZIGBEE - is NOT Directly possible.

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.
My Suggestion is to UPDATE the whole Paragraph - as Follows

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APPS - are NOT Required - for Matter Devices

Connecting a Matter device can be done using the Homey Web App and the Homey Mobile App.

:bulb: It is not possible to install apps for Matter devices.

  • Homey Pro will figure out the capabilities of the device, without installing any apps.

  • This applies to both of the following:

  • Matter over - THREAD
  • Matter over - WI-FI

cc @Emile

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I feel flattered that you think I have more contact or influence…
No I am just a community member like you…

I see a dedication to get things better.
The normal way is to create a support ticket.
If you send it to support and you are not satisfied there is one next step Kom werken bij Athom in Enschede

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BTW, please check your info before you submit it to Athom Support.
or let us know where you found this new technology.

afaik Matter uses IPv6 and needs an transport layer that supports this. Zigbee doesn’t.

See Build With Matter | Smart Home Device Solution - CSA-IOT

IP-Based

Matter makes it easier for device manufacturers to build devices that are compatible with smart home and voice services […] . The first specification release of the Matter protocol will run on Wi-Fi and Thread network layers and will use Bluetooth Low Energy for commissioning.

Additional Reading Reolink Blog Matter vs Zigbee: Matter vs. Zigbee: Exploring the Differences

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Hi Geurt,

I assumed you were a full time employee with Homey
and were paid for the work you are doing, to inform and enrich the Homey Community.

You manage to find the time to reply to dozens of posts each day,
that is a level of commitment which I find amazing.

I do hope that this has been said to you before
thanks to you, for all that you do, which is inspirational. :grinning:

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@Dijker
Oops - I may have Misunderstood - if so I would want to go back - and correct my earlier Posts.

1 - Matter over Thread - Seems OK

2 - Matter over Wi-Fi - Seems OK

3 - But maybe - Matter over ZIGBEE Is - NOT Possible

21-Jan-2024 - community feedback has confirmed that
Matter over ZigBee is NOT Directly Possible - as users would need a Matter Bridge
My Earlier Post has now been Updated

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Nope,
As Said, Matter doesn’t work over Zigbee…

Matter Basics: How It Works

Matter is a standard for the application layer. It uses the Internet Protocol (IPv6) on the Network layer and User Datagram Protocol (UDP) & Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) on the Transport Layer. Matter 1.0 will run on top of Thread (IEEE 802.15.4), Wi-Fi / WLAN (IEEE 802.11), and Ethernet / LAN (IEEE 802.3).

No Zigbee,

Is ZigBee and 802.15 4 the same?
ZigBee is a protocol that uses the 802.15. 4 standard as a baseline and adds additional routing and networking functionality. The ZigBee protocol was developed by the ZigBee Alliance.

Thread != Zigbee != IEEE 802.15.4

And for What I know All Knowledge around Matter / Thread is online. often also from the Athom Blog / Wiki / Support site …

I don’t know if any brand is developing Thread devices (a new standard) without support for Matter, but just i case:

Support: Thread for Homey Pro (Early 2023)

Connecting a Thread device

Homey Pro only supports Thread devices that also use Matter.

And: Matter (Beta) for Homey Pro (Early 2023

How To Use Matter

Connecting a Matter device can be done using the Homey Web App and the Homey Mobile App.
:bulb:It is not possible to install apps for Matter devices, Homey Pro will figure out the capabilities of the device without installing any apps.

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Are you asking that 30k Community members?
It doesn’t matter :wink: what the 30k users think, just read the documentation, Zigbee doesn’t use IPv6 and Matter needs IPv6 and is only defined for LAN (including Wifi) and Thread …

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Earlier Post - has now been Corrected

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And to answer your title.
Technically ZigBee doesn’t need an app, it just offers way more options as there are a lot of manufacturers that uses ZigBee’s (too?) open protocol in their own way, as manufacturers can pretty much do whatever they want.
Z-Wave has the same, it doesn’t need an app, while the protocol is more strict compared to ZigBee (especially from the start) in what manufacturers can do, there are enough different implementations out there making apps just more useful. (Athom has tried to have a single Z-Wave implementation at the very start (7 years ago), but that failed of the small changes between the manufacturers’ device behaviour).
Matter on the other end is still very new, not sure about the strictness of the protocol, but it seems more strict in what manufacturers are allowed to do, making apps less necessary.

Will it stay that way?
That is something you would need to ask Athom via their support form (they don’t read here often, even less responds), as their filosofie of “every brand needs its own app” was there from the very start, it might definitely be possible that apps will get there to offer more user friendly options later on, like easy to set settings, and/or a nice icon for their device.

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And to answer that other one:

Does Homey Pro need APP’s for - Matter over Zigbee - Matter over Wi-Fi

We just concluded that over Zigbee is not possible, it is for now either Thread or LAN (Ethernet/Wifi) that Matter Requires.

Maybe some time there wil be other Datalink and Physical Layers but I doubt that will happen soon and certainly not the Avian Carriers …

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This is probably a newbie dumb question, but I have Linkind Matter over wifi bulbs, and I know if you connect them via their native IOS app, you have to be on 2.4g wifi network…if adding this to homey via matter, does that mean Homey Pro has to be set to 2.4g network?

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No.
As long it’s on the same subnet, like, 192.168.10.1

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That’s interesting because hasn’t worked for me. Have tried all day long to add these bulbs to homey and failed. Of note I am trying to connect via HP and not IOS as want to “try” to transfer everything over to HP

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Maybe I did process wrong…but my HP I had setup on my 5g wifi signal. And trying add them through matter, just doesn’t work.

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Now if I connect them to matter via AiDot native app, it works, even apple ecosystem homekit…and big caution note about 2.4g wifi setting hence why ii asked that question. SO I am at a complete loss and will probably return them and stick with HUE

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Hmmm, I ask myself, why didn’t you share all the info right away?

I don’t get why (you think) Homey has to be set to specifically 2.4GHz (that’s even not possible at all), never heard of it.
AFAIK it pairs with your WIFI 2.4GHz SSID, NOT directly with Homey…? I don’t believe Homey has to be put in setup mode, to enable it’s Acces Point, to be able to add Matter over wifi device. That’s just silly.

And devices connected to 2.4GHz SSID can communicate with devices on your LAN and with devices connected to 5GHz SSID. As long as they are on the same subnet.

One hint, try adding the device using the web app. Sometimes things which won’t work with mobile app, do work with the web app.

I hope a Matter-over-wifi insider can shed some light on this, to advice what you should and shouldn’t do.