Aqara Zigbee sensors

[Menne_Talsma]

I’m getting fed up with Homey/Aqara- Zigbee…

I thought ( a couple of years ago) that Zigbee would become the new standard. So now I have 16 Aqara door/windows sensors, 5 Aqara motion sensors and 8 Aqara temp/ humid sensors. Plus some 25+ Robbshobb Aqara light switches and a couple of Tradfri lights…

I am a bit dissapointed in the new Homey 2023 not being able to handles these devices trustworthy, i don’t like reading about Homey not being able to handle more than 40 zigbee devices…

My main concern is the Aqara devices. They lose connection randomly.
I read multiple posts about it nut now one seems to have a solution. So all my advanced flows, which get triggered by door/motion sensors and took me ages to fine-tune are AAARGHH

I just want a stable system, what to do? Get rid of Aqara and buy new/better sensors. But then which brand or protocol of sensors will work reliable with HomeyPro 2023?? I don’t mind spending money, but I hate throwing it down the drain.

Or maybe there is a Aqara Zigbee hub which works as a reliable Zigbee-sub-station for HP 2023

Is there anyone who can advise me to set up a stable system with lots of door/motion-sensors? I’m desperate…

Grtz
Menen

[Peter_Kawa]

@Menne_Talsma

and a couple of Tradfri lights…

Bingo…
Pro 2019 + Aqara + Ikea Tradfri Lights =
Awara + Ikea plugs work fine.
When I replaced Tradfri lights with Lidl lights, all was fine again.

It’s sad to hear the new zigbee chip of Pro23 seems to have similar incompatibilities.
Be aware Aqara doesn’t follow the zigbee standards 100%.
It’s unfair to put the blaim Homey solely. It’s the combination which has flaws…

Interesting find: Aqara + Ikea Tradfri work just fine together on a zigbee2mqtt zigbee mesh…

@Menne_Talsma

i don’t like reading about Homey not being able to handle more than 40 zigbee devices…

Then you’ve read the zigbee info for the Pro 201x model!
Pro 2023 should be able to handle 200 - 250 zigbee devices.

@Menne_Talsma

My main concern is the Aqara devices. They lose connection randomly.

Remove the Ikea lights from the zigbee mesh, and monitor it for several days.
Also the zigbee stack for the Pro23 is not 100% perfect yet.

Homey Pro (Early 2023) Changelog

@Menne_Talsma

I thought ( a couple of years ago) that Zigbee would become the new standard

Wrong. Zigbee 3.0 is a standard, but brands are not obliged to follow the standard.
The trick is to mix as little a possible brands/models, or ask / search for bad combinations.
Tuya is also an example of having their own deviations from the standard.

@Menne_Talsma

Is there anyone who can advise me to set up a stable system with lots of door/motion-sensors?

I use zigbee2mqtt*** and have very little issues. To me, wireless is never 100% rock solid. It also responds about a second faster, despite the zigbee signal also going to and from Homey via wifi.
***) not because of Homey zigbee. It worked fine, albeit a bit slow. I just like to experiment and play with new stuff.

Last but not least, zigbee can be interfered by wifi signals. Did you tune your wifi & zigbee channels? Any neighbors with strong wifi signals in your home?

[Sharkys]

@Peter_Kawa

Ikea plugs work fine

I would not bet on that Peter. I had to remove one of Tradfri powersocket because it was periodically leaving Zigbee mesh (and causing other Zigbee devices disconnected but since Athom deciced not to implement route mesh, it’s guess only) + I kept one in the network but even it’s non-battery router, it’s showing last seen values pretty old. So I would say, there is some bigger problem with IKEA devices as such. I even tried to update firmware on them via Zigbee2Mqtt, it’s kind of working but still it’s disturbing (the last seen value).

And one of the Tradfri has been even added as end-device, I had to fully remove it and add it - then it was added correctly as router

[Peter_Kawa]

@Sharkys

@Peter_Kawa

Ikea plugs work fine

I would not bet on that Peter.

Yeah, it’s of course my positive experience.
Maybe Ikea uses different hardware/firmwares in one and the same model like Tuya does?

But again, it’s not Ikea causing the problem here, it’s Aqara not following standards

[Menne_Talsma]

Thx for taking the time to react,
I learned a Lot,. First thing to do is to lose the Ikea devices, but that’ll mean I have no Illumination in the Attic, which is my home-office… will need tot fix that

Couple of quick questions:
You stated: Pro 2019 + Aqara + Ikea Tradfri Lights = , but I upgraded to Pro2023, I guess on Homey Pro 2023 the combi Tradfri and Aqara still is an ?

I know Zigbee and Wifi can interfere. But the interference will not cause a Zigbee-device to completely lose connection does it? I alway thought that due to interference at most sometimes a signals won’t pass correctly (but then maybe the next occurence everything works fine…)

Setting up Zigbee2Mqtt is a bridge too far for me. I’ve read about it… But setting up a zigbee server or a MQTT-broker (wtf is that anyway) on a Raspberry.-Pie… Wouldn’t know where to start… out of my league…

Will adding an Aqara-Zigbee-hub provide any solution (eg.to route all the Aqara devices via that hub?)
Or maybe use a Ikea-hub to route the Ikea-devices via the Ikea hub?

What do you think, will that solve anything?

[JanPieter88]

Interesting topic to follow for me (a Zigbee-noob) .

Until recently I thought my Hue lightbulbs were simply ‘Zigbee’, and I could use them to route the signal to other non-Hue devices . Now (afaik) I learned the Hue Bridge sets up its own Zigbee-network on a different channel, and the Hue lightbulbs don’t relay signals to Aqara sensors. Would this be the same for the Ikea and Aqara ‘hubs’ you speak of? They only relay Zigbee to their own devices?

Experimenting with this (and because I couldn’t reach a ‘faraway’ Aquara sensor) I bought both a Sonoff stick (not easy to change from ‘coordinator’ to ‘router’) and an Aeotec range extender (pics). But since my Zigbee network (minus the many many Hue devices) is still very small and simple, I can’t recommend on either device.

[Menne_Talsma]

And how is that sonoff Zigbee controller hooked up to Homey?
You can still control your zigbee devices in a flow?

[JanPieter88]

As I said, I don’t have many Zigbee devices, just an Aqara Cube and Door/Window Sensor .
The (yellow 1) Sonoff dongle was added as a regular Zigbee device to Homey, I first flashed the firmware to ‘router’ mode. I see now that Homey has categorized it as a Wall plug.
For the (green 2) Aeotec Range Extender I used the (official) Aeotec app.

And yes, I use a flow to detect my Zigbee Aqara Door/window sensor in my mailbox, works fine. I’m not 100% sure if it’s connected to the Homey directly or to the Sonoff though. I don’t know how to see a map of the Zigbee network.

(I also, just to be sure, disabled my wi-fi 2,4GHz channel 11, and then reset the Zigbee network, which then went from 25 to 20.)

[Peter_Kawa]

You’re very welcome.

@Menne_Talsma

First thing to do is to lose the Ikea devices,

Just remove them from your zigbee mesh, you still have lights for the time being?

@Menne_Talsma

You stated: Pro 2019 + Aqara + Ikea Tradfri Lights = , but I upgraded to Pro2023, I guess on Homey Pro 2023 the combi Tradfri and Aqara still is an ?

That’s what I tried to say with seems

@Peter_Kawa

It’s sad to hear the new zigbee chip of Pro23 seems to have similar incompatibilities.

There’s enough posts about Pro 2023 + Aqara issues. I don’t know if Ikea lights were involved everywhere.
But give it a try for a few days without Ikea, then we’ll know more!

@Menne_Talsma

But the interference will not cause a Zigbee-device to completely lose connection does it

I don’t know really. When the wifi signal completely jams the zigbee signal of a device, it will not sent updates anylonger, I presume. I don’t have a test lab.
Sure thing is, they can use the exact same frequency band, and then zigbee can lose while wifi has a lot higher transmit power. Can’t find the source right now, but it can be up to 10 times higher.

@Menne_Talsma

Will adding an Aqara-Zigbee-hub provide any solution (eg.to route all the Aqara devices via that hub?)
Or maybe use a Ikea-hub to route the Ikea-devices via the Ikea hub?

I’d go for the latter (just while you don’t have many Ikea stuff).
But, if Aqara by itself is/seems to be a PITA on the Pro 23, I’d go for the Aqara hub.

Note, they create their own zigbee mesh, so you have to watch the distances between the devices on both zigbee networks.

@Menne_Talsma

Zigbee2Mqtt is a bridge too far

I can get that. It took me quite some time all together.
But, if you like some info for a boring rainy day, here’s a how-to I wrote. I use zigbee2mqtt as Homeassistant add-on

Hi @JanPieter88
The sonoff stick is a nice idea when you need to reach a ‘faraway’ device.
But if range is not critical, or mains power is available, I would just add some zigbee plugs or lights at strategic positions.

@JanPieter88

(I also, just to be sure, disabled my wi-fi 2,4GHz channel 11, and then reset the Zigbee network, which then went from 25 to 20.)

I don’t understand this logic. Prior to the actual reset of your zigbee network, you’ll have to be sure to have your 2.4GHz wifi on a (quiet as possible) fixed channel.
When resetting zigbee, Homey then tries to find a quiet channel, and changes the zigbee channel if needed.
Now it’s imho just a coincidence it changed from 25 to 20.
OR, you have strong enough neighbor wifi signals in your home… which probably are not on a fixed channel.

[Sharkys]

@Peter_Kawa

Aqara by itself is/seems to be a PITA on the Pro 23

Actually it was very bad in my case…after I did maintenance (when Athom releases firmware stating they were fixing some pairing issues on migrated Homeys), it works quite well and without issues.
Unfortunately I have asked both, TED and Athom, if they can confirm that pairing again without removal = maintenance is or is not required and they DID NOT COMMENT (even when asked repeatedly) - as I have positive results after I did it, I do believe it’s a must (not sure why Athom do not release any article about that). But as I stated above, I have also removed at that time (+/-) one of Tradfri power socket, that was periodically leaving mesh (but got problems with sensor also not routing via that device)… since then, finally all sensors keep updating and also keep updating all values but I think the root cause was the bug in the firmware when migrating from HP19.

Eg. problematic TVOC Aqara sensor - you can see the improvement of air quality measurements after Athom probably fixing it in the firmware and me doing maintenance/pairing again without removal

[JanPieter88]

@Peter_Kawa

I don’t understand this logic. Prior to the actual reset of your zigbee network, you’ll have to be sure to have your 2.4GHz wifi on a (quiet as possible) fixed channel.
When resetting zigbee, Homey then tries to find a quiet channel, and changes the zigbee channel if needed.
Now it’s imho just a coincidence it changed from 25 to 20.

Yes I agree, it was probably ‘coincidence’, maybe it preferred channel 20 after it became ‘available’ because I limited my wi-fi. I’d read somewhere that some Zigbee devices don’t like channel 25 .

[Menne_Talsma]

@Peter_Kawa

Well disabling Ikea did NOT do the trick here…
Yesterday I simply deletet the Ikea-app from my Homey2023, and by doeing so deleting all my Ikeay appliances. After that I repaired all the Aqarara door and motion sensors (11 of them in total).

Unfortunately… by the end of the day more then half of them lost connection again… and this morning, All but two of them where dead…

I dunno if it makes any difference that I chose to ‘repair’ the existing sensors, rather then delete- and reinstall them. My gut feeling says that don’t matter.

I Realise now that a lot of my zigbee Routers are Hardware light-switches from Robbshop. These have been working flawless for over two years (both on HP2019 and HP2023)…

But maybe there’s a some hickup there somewhere in this trio-combi (Aqara-Robbshop-HP2023)
I’ll keep searching…

Thanks for your efforts

[Peter_Kawa]

Not sure if deleting an app, removes it’s devices completely the from zigbee mesh.
Did you test cutting the Ikea lights from mains also?

@Menne_Talsma

if it makes any difference that I chose to ‘repair’ the existing sensors, rather then delete- and reinstall them

Re-pair or re-add shouldn’t be different from “delete an install again”.

What do you mean with

@Menne_Talsma

more then half of them lost connection again… and this morning, All but two of them where dead

Do you get “Device X left the zigbee network” notifications (= lost connection)?
or are the sensors going silent, but not leaving the mesh?
Describe ‘dead’? They just don’t work anymore at all? Ready for the bin?
That’s a battery or Aqara issue then.
(Don’t trust Homey + Aqara battery level monitoring, first thing I’d do is replacing the battery)

Not sure if Robb + Aqara means trouble. Didn’t read about it.

[JB2K]

In the ever-evolving landscape of smart home technology, finding the right balance between innovation and stability can be a daunting task. For many enthusiasts, Zigbee technology appeared to be the beacon of hope, promising seamless connectivity and a future-proof smart home experience. However, frustrations often arise when promises don’t align with reality. In this blog post, we delve into the challenges faced by users, particularly those who have opted for Athom’s Homey Pro 2023, and explore potential solutions.

The Zigbee Conundrum

The allure of Zigbee lies in its ability to create a mesh network, connecting various devices seamlessly. Aqara, a popular Zigbee device brand, captured the attention of many with its diverse range of sensors. However, the dream of a stable, interconnected smart home can quickly turn into a nightmare when devices start losing connection randomly.

The Athom Factor

Athom, the company behind Homey Pro 2023, took a bold step by developing its own Zigbee solution. However, users like you found the implementation lacking. The decision to reinvent the wheel, instead of opting for established solutions like Zigbee2mqtt, left users grappling with an unreliable system.

A User’s Rebellion

Frustration among users reached a boiling point, leading to a rebellion of sorts. The community began exploring alternatives, leading to the discovery of a more stable setup. By employing a Sonoff Zigbee stick and dedicating a computer to run Zigbee2mqtt and Home Assistant, users found the power of advanced flows and the stable connection they craved. This user-driven solution not only bypassed Athom’s limitations but also empowered users to take control of their smart home destiny.

Conclusion: Empowering the Smart Home Enthusiast

In the face of challenges, smart home enthusiasts have showcased their resilience and ingenuity. The tale of Zigbee woes serves as a testament to the power of community-driven solutions. As users, it’s crucial to advocate for stability and reliability. By embracing alternative setups like Zigbee2mqtt and Home Assistant, users can reclaim control over their smart home experience.

The journey might have been riddled with frustration, but in the end, it’s the user community that emerged victorious, showcasing the true spirit of innovation and resilience in the face of technological challenges.

TLDR: get a sonoff zigbee stick

[Menne_Talsma]

I found another solution which solved it (for now) and is well within my capabilities.

('Cus as I said before: Tthe Sonoff USB stick solution (which apparently means setting up an MQTTBroker/sever-thingy…) That’s WAY out of my league…

My Solution:

I had already Set-up My Old HP2019 as a satellite of my new HP2023. Cus I use the speaker and Led-Ring to communicate Home-scenes and Home status with me. Big thank you to @Arie_J_Godschalk for making this possible ([APP][Pro] Homesh Controller & Homesh Satellite - Connect Homey Pro 2023 to Homey Pro for Led, Speaker, Zwave(satellite) and network resource).

Since I had no trouble with Aqara on my HP2019 I decided to try out if my old Trusted Homey2019 might serve me as a sort of Zigbee Coordinator…

So Yesterday I spend an hour or so adding deleting all my Aqara devices from HP2023 and added them to my old Homey Pro 2019

Then for each Aqara-sensor on the HP2019, I created an equal ‘shadow’ virtual-sensor on HP2023

With a nice advanced flow I relay the actual contact/motion sensor-statusses to the virtual devices in HP2023… It’s like quantum-reality… When A aqara-sensor’s status flips in HP2019, automatically the virtual sensor in HP2023 flips along with it.

Now all my flows on HP2023 are working again; e.g. when I open the back door, the lights in the Yard turn on So I don’t break my Neck…

So far the Aqara’s keep their connection with HP2019…

It’s a weird work-around, I know but it works!!

[Rrrr]

This is too much.

I do not use Homey ZigBee but used to control three Hue bridges with the native hue app which also has known issues (slow sensor response time) and Athom promised to fix those long ago. I hated having to install HA on a RPi, but with the HA Community app it gave me better (lightning fast) response times. HA simply has a better ZigBee stack.

We should be able to rely on a $400 device (my third…2016…2019…2023) to do it all. Athom keeps coming with new marginal features while making empty promises to fix things. Lots of complaints with ZigBee above, but also with Zwave in other threads (although there’s progress).

Don’t get me wrong. I really appreciate the Homey. Using HA on the side shows me how middle age HA is. It’s for nerds.

But we all depend very much on our Homey and should collectively demand fixes from the supplier we paid to get a working home automation that claims to be compatible with 1000s of brands. A class action would be a very American thing to do but why is Athom not fixing?

There can be no such thing as Athom ignoring this or not replying to your issue. So far my experience with customer service has been excellent. Reading this thread seems to show that Athom product management does not seem to have their priorities in order.

Fixing is much harder than working out new ideas that could potentially generate more sales for which one can claim personal success. It’s human nature but leaves the loyal followers who generated Athoms cashflow behind.

In addition, too many issues on a forum is also a bad indication for potential first-time buyers…

Let me have your thoughts on how you think is best to handle this. Probably we need a separate thread on this and list the core issues that need to be fixed. Communicate these with Athom. Then keep track of Athoms timelines for each issue.

BTW here’s their current list: roadmap.

No mention of the ZigBee stack they promised to redo long ago

[Menne_Talsma]

I agree with you,

Thamn thing cost me a bundle
Thing should work

But taking this up with Athom-support is not a short term fix for the smooth operation of my SmartHome…

So I worked around it,
But I do trust or I at least I hope Athom will fix this in the end.

Oh PS
Me Nitwitt, but Watya mean with ‘Install HA on a Rpi’?

[Rrrr]

@Menne_Talsma

Me Nitwitt, but Watya mean with ‘Install HA on a Rpi’?

Buy a Raspberry Pi and install Home Assistant: these are the basic ingredients to set up a “competing” home automation solution, except that you do not need to install any antenna or transmitter.

Then install the HA Community app on your Homey so your Homey can speak with HA and see the devices that HA sees. This does not apply to Zigbee or Zwave, but does apply to other controllers like the Philips Hue Bridge.

The HA software stack is amazing which means that their integration works very well with all kinds of devices (hardware).

[robertklep]

@Rrrr

Home Automation

Home Assistant

[Bart_Kruyver]

No work around yet, i believe. Aqara won’t work for me either. I als do have a combination of aqara and robbsmart plugs…
I think this is really bad, that athom won’t fix this…