RF Learning and VCD file

Links or it didn’t happen.

I don’t honestly care about 433Mhz at all, as probably most other long time members don’t. People have either moved on to alternatives like Zigbee or Z-Wave, or they’re using an external RF device that works for them and they don’t really care about native support anymore.

Same as with a lot of other Homey issues, at some point people accept that they probably will never get fixed (because they’ve existed for so long that there must be a reason why Athom hasn’t been able to fix it) and all they can do is share workarounds with each other.

Plz do so. But plz also do that in emails to Athom and not on a community forum. What’s the fun of boring forum members with things we cannot do anyting about?

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99% of the forum is normal every day business .

1% of the forum is controversial subjects like this which are legitimate and DO need to be discussed and/or debated.

1%….Hardly “overwhelming” or killing the party atmosphere :laughing:.

The longer that I’ve been on this forum I’ve been coming across some of your older posts as well as some more recent ones…

I know that we’ve clashed a few times and had a few battles here and there. (All fun though) no serious misgivings, but on reading some of your posts I’ve actually come to respect some of the work and contributions that you’ve made to the forum which I wasn’t aware of.

There was one recent post i came across the other day in which you must of spent quiet a lot of time compiling a set of instructions and information to help users with all the new changes with the Homey product line and the addition of the new Homey Bridge… etc etc. It was actually quite professionally done…

For that you have my respect :+1:. I always admire anyone who is willing to donate their own personal time to help and/or make a contribution in one form or another… Most people don’t usually care about that sort of stuff… Also a quick shout out to Pete and Dijker for their work too.

That being said though, your last post was pretty much what I was taking about …

Nothing to see here, quickly brush under the carpet , move along, what problem, sunshine rainbows and lollipops …

Most of the long term issues with the Homey platform are due to this attitude…

You guys are too kind to Athom …

Trying to hush up a conversation or brush it under the carpet just helps Athom get away with things that then have done over all these years .

I totally respect if you have an alternative point of view. You are more than welcome to your view, but to try and hush up and move along others who have legitimate issues about the platform is not appropriate and is basically trying to censor them …

This attitude is one of reason things have gotten to where they are now …

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Done! Iám looking forward to hear what Homey´s reply will be to the issues, because I have had other issues as well beside the RF-433.

That attitude is exactly why Athom have gotten away with things for so long …

It’s called Defeatism…,

Like i said: go ahead yelling to the wrong peeps every day. Yell that the 400 euro’s thingies ( u did buy 2 of them alr now didn’t u?) doesn’t meet ur expetations and keep yelling ( to the wrong peeps again) that the 7 dollar Ali devices work like Homey should. If that makes u feel good then that’s ok. Gonna put u on ignore so i don’t need to read that shit ( meant for Athom, not for me or any other forum member) over and over again.
It’s not an attitude btw, it’s a way of thinking. If u think yelling at the wrong peeps every day is gonna make ur 2 Homeys work better then best think again.

I think i did some contribution yes. Not all peeps can like what u do, there is too many different peeps.

Huh. ? Im not yelling at you or the peeps :wink:. Your not paying attention to the axe that I’m grinding , :smirk:

Time to go to bed Roco…

Am not living down under m8!

A quote from the AD for that cheapo $7 universal remote…

Cloning chip types:

PT2260,

SC2260,

LX2260,

HX2260);

PT2262,

SC2262,

LX2262,

HS2262,

HX2262)

,PT2264,

PT2240(

LX2240),

EV1527,

HS1527,

HX1527 ),

FP527,

CS5211,

SMC918,

SMC926,

AX5026,

AX5326-3,

AX5326-4,

HT600,

HT680,

HT6207,

HT6010,

HT6012,

HT6013,

HT6014,

HT12D,

HT46F49E,

PIC16F629,

PIC16F630

Still , I think you need have a good rest or snooze . What’s the time there… ?

Approx 10 hours before urs.

Those are all (apart from the last three, which aren’t RF chips at all) basically the same: tristate, 10/12/20 bit fixed code transmitters.

I looked up about x 5 at random on the upper half of the list… All seem to be different makes and models of RF capable chips from different manufacturers. The last three seem to be micro controllers used to drive RF circuits.

What do you mean by “the same” …

They all use the same encoding mechanism and the code to decode each one is basically the same. But sure, for the sake of argument, let’s group together the controllers that are really the same (just different manufacturer/version/voltage/package):

  1. PT2260 SC2260 LX2260 HX2260 PT2262 SC2262 LX2262 HS2262 HX2262 PT2264 PT2240 LX2240
  2. EV1527 HS1527 HX1527 FP527
  3. CS5211
  4. SMC918 SMC926
  5. AX5026 AX5326-3 AX5326-4
  6. HT600 HT680 HT6207 HT6010 HT6012 HT6013 HT6014 HT12D

So 6 code types. And those are only simple fixed code devices, they always send the same value. From my experience, this list doesn’t cover a lot of devices that are used in home automation from brands like Trust/Kaku or generic cheap RF-controlled power plugs that you buy at DIY stores.

Like I said, if Athom would want to implement generic RF learning capabilities (provided that they actually can), they will have to cover dozens, if not hundreds, of device types. Also when brand X isn’t supported, people like yourself will be up in arms on the forum telling everyone how bad the RF support is.

Thanks Rob,

That’s some good information to know… I didn’t realise you knew so much about 433Mhz tech.

I’m surprised you didn’t bring those points up before in that last discussion we had about 433Mhz when I mentioned this $7 Chinese remote …

I didn’t try to infer that this cheapo $7 universal remote was the “super” mega ultimate solution that can learn everything on the planet, just that I believe that it covers more devices on the market than what Homey can…

Dissecting this universal remote is probably a whole seperate discussion on its own but from what I’ve seen those things are able to learn hundreds to maybe thousands of 433Mhz devices on the market, not just 6 or so …

I guess the big question is how many 433Mhz devices on the market does the Homey Pro currently support ? Is it in the hundreds or thousands or more ?

You also commented that this cheapo $7 universal remote “only” does fixed codes…. Isn’t that what “most” home devices use ?

Things such as garage controllers , security alarm systems, sliding gate controllers etc etc, do use proprietary rolling codes (also which are also encrypted).

Virtually no learning universal remote controls out there or smart hubs for that matter (not even Broadlink) can learn rolling codes… That type of equipment always locked down and requires some sort of “physical” hardwire hack or intervention to be able to control and isn’t accessible by 433Mhz .

Pointing out that this cheap $7 universal remote can “only” do fixed codes is sort of redundant as no other learning systems can learn rolling codes either…:thinking:

Some people complain that the 433mhz gear they bought from a small low volume European manufacturer who uses crazy proprietary protocols and proprietary hardware wont work with a universal learning remote control.

Well that’s because they bought a device from a small low volume manufacturer that locks down their system with crazy proprietary protocol’s and hardware :crazy_face:

What do you expect…:wink:.

For 433Mhz gear in general my own golden rule is to always buy generic mass produced 433Mhz gear and never buy from small “boutique” or “exclusive” type of manufacturers … They just try to lock their systems down and make them in accessible…

I’m not “country” biased but Ive found many products made in European are generally locked down with proprietary protocols…

This may sound crazy but the more generic and cheaper the gear is ive generally found is more easier to deal with and take control of with universal remotes or smart hubs… From my experience generally anything you buy from AliExpress is fairly easy for RF learning systems to copy and re-transmit…

The Chinese really don’t care about locking their gear down or using fancy proprietary protocols or being “exclusive” … They just want the gear to be sellable to everyone. .(a good philosophy)

Anyhoo , my ramble has probably gone too long …(as usual) :grin:

My ultimate question is …(I’ve asked this many times now)

Homey is “able” to record RF raw code . Technically why can’t it play it back .?

I’m just looking for a technical definitive answer on that point otherwise all other talk is just a distraction to what everyone wants to really know ,…:slightly_smiling_face:

I’m not interested in carrying this discussion forward much anymore. I understand your issues, but what I’m trying to say is that those thousands of 433Mhz devices will be using one of those 6 RF transmitter chips, so they’re all using the same codes.

Yes, implementing (generic) support for those few transmitters would cover thousands of devices, but it would also not cover thousands of other devices. So we would end up with discussions similar to this with people that happen to have a device that isn’t supported.

That said, I think there’s nothing standing in the way of a developer wanting to create an app for those 6 RF transmitter chips.

Thanks, this is useful. I’ve tried it out, in combination with the Athom Homey RF Driver it refers to, and also looking at the klikaanklikuit example:

I got to the point where my app can pair the RF remote I’m testing, but it fails to trigger the When-card, so far. (I’m new to Homey apps and JS dev, but know some other languages.) Seems it is possible, but will require quite some work per device to figure out the settings. The predictor produces a very large payload, which seems odd to me for a simple 1-buttton remote. Also I need to figure out Homey programming in general.

It would be nice to get something like this 2262-chip based long range remote to work. These things exist with different kinds of chips, there is EV1527 too, for example. I have no idea what is easiest to work with:

Making a generic app is way beyond me at this point. If the signal prediction approach works, I imagine one could at least make an app where you enter any number of signal definitions into the advanced settings of the app, to make it support arbitrary devices, provided they use a simple signal. But I’d be happy with a hardcoded single-device, single flow card custom app.

Or if there already exists a supported long-range 433 remote, I’d rather just buy that. Haven’t found it yet.

Now I got it to work, triggering the When-card, by ignoring the payload and the Command mechanism, which don’t matter for a single button device. Simply running the trigger whenever my Signal receives a payload, regardless of what the payload is. Ugly as sin I’m sure, but works, for this device.

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