Learn/send custom IR or RF signals?

While the Homey plateform has its flaws it’s not bad overall once you’ve used it for awhile and you then go and look at other systems.

I call it the flawed Diamond. It has huge potential and does have a lot of really good features but unfortunately its run by a bunch of “talented idiots” as I like to call them.

While Athom are very good at programming. GUI interfaces and visual design they are extremely horrible when it comes to running a business. They have a very bad business strategy mixed in with a bit of ignorance, arrogance and some occasional upside down logic.

From a moral point of view , considering this is an extremely expensive premium product (marketed as an all in one solution) and Athom’s apparent extreme contempt and disregard for IR and 433mhz (plus some other features) which $30 Chinese bridges can handle easily I would vote with your wallet and buy into another platform.

Potential buyers read this forum and they read these posts. Athom are definitely losing sales from this very poor attitude and disregard. It’s not until they realise they are losing sales they will fix this big ugly black hole in their system. Vote with your wallet I say.

If you have to start adding a complicated tangle of external bridges then you might as well go with Home Assistant.

There is more of a learning curve with it . It will take time to learn but it’s more powerful , has a far larger user and support base and is getting more user friendly day by day. The whole setup (inc a Broadlink) will only cost you a quarter of the price of a Homey Pro.

Saying that though I’d probably hold off until the new Homey Pro announcement coming up if it’s just IR/433mhz that is the decider for you.

If they don’t fix those two things then I’d start doing some research into Home Assistant.,

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Hi Levi.

Unfortunately your one of the many Lemmings that I’ve seen fall off the Athom IR/433mhz cliff, so to speak with regards to this. Join the club.

The whole situation is totally unacceptable.

Especially the broken IR learning. I wasted sooo much time on it. I’d hate to know how many people have done the same.

5 years of this. No action .Total stubbornness and arrogance.

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If you get into a jam trying to get your curtains to work I can give some advice on a work around for them It will involve adding an RF bridge but it will be possible to operate them…

Can we plz close this topic?
A simple question turns out to be a Russell-only fight against Athom.
@moderators ^^

… because a lot of people is searching for a solution. For me a topic should be closed once it is resolved, not because it raise a problem lot of people are agree with (but I’m not the moderator, so I don’t do rules).

Perhaps someone could develop an application able to learn an send IR / RF-433 signals ?

Russel is…, well… Russel. I don’t respond to that complaint-bot.

App requests can be done here, Ezeta.

I’m sorry that I have to keep highlighting this but its an issue that needs to exposed and addressed.

If we don’t keep complaining about these problems then nothing will get fixed…

A Stockholme Syndrome / Denialism / Defeatists/ Head in the sand type of attitude isn’t going to help.

Trying to attack or censor those that complain about what is a totally justifiable issue is nuts.

Potential new Homey buyers need to see these post’s… It would be criminal to try and hide or cover up these obvious problems.

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If that was actually possible, it would already exist.

Yeah, I guess Anthom is not allowing applications to access learn APIs… while it exist at least internally since they developed it for developper interface.
it’s really strange, as if it was restricted voluntary.

Let’s be honest.
In order to create a prerequisite for IR, Homey would have to be permanently within sight of the devices to be controlled. This fact limits the use from the outset. I switched to the Harmony Hub and the Switchbot Hub a long time ago. There is no IR device that I cannot control with the two hubs. Both are compatible with Homey and achieve a quality that Homey will never achieve. Either you continue to get angry, or you change something about it.
It’s similar at 433 MHz. You can be angry or you can buy a broadlink. 433 MHz has little future in the smart home. The very limited range and no repeating limit the use to a radius of about 10 meters enormously. Many Bluetooth devices have a better range. It’s a shame if someone has invested a lot of money in 433 MHz, but this technology will become extinct in the medium term.
With IR I can only advise everyone to invest in a Switchbot hub for € 35.- and to place this hub in line of sight to their IR devices. The secret of a perfect smart home is not just a control center, but the optimal control center for every purpose and then connecting it to Homey.

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I understand you abandoned the idea that your device managing IR / RF can do it really. I did not. I already have a Broadlink, but I don’t see the point to keep several devices consuming energy while they could/should do the same thing.
So thank you for your answer, but please, stop proposing to use Broadlink or Harmony. If I’m here it’s to find a way to get Homey doing the full job, not to reproduce what I already have in place currently.

The Homey is technically able to learn IR / RF on short periods. That’s what is used when you are in Homey developper console. But this API is not available for use in applications (which could for instance listen for signals just after creation and memorize to re-send when triggered. It would listen only in the first second of the configuration).

It seems there is a page about such API here:
https://apps-sdk-v2.developer.athom.com/tutorial-Signals.html
But it sends to a 404 page (deleted page ?)

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V2 = old

We were just trying to help with the easiest and quickest and practical ideas :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes::upside_down_face:
That’s mostly requested, no offence.

It seems impossible, doesn’t it?
What makes you think otherwise? Just curious.:wink:

I don’t think otherwise, it’s just not possible with Homey. There are no features available in the SDK that allow IR/RF recording. Besides that, recording signals doesn’t match with how apps have to deal with signals (where they have to declare which signals to listen to, or transmit, up front).

Whoops, Robert. I used / borrowed your comment to make a point to Ezeta :blush:
So fuhgetaboutit :hugs:

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One thing I don’t understand is that Homey is able to physically capture raw 433Mhz code via the developer control panel with no problem at all… Why can’t it play back the code it’s able to record … ? Surely wouldn’t this be able to be resolved with a software fix to the OS…

Tasmota is able to record and re broadcast 433mhz codes with just a mere 512kb of firmware.

I have a cheap $7 universal learning remote fob attached to the end of my car keys that I use to open up my sliding gate when I get home every day. It’s able to learn thousands of RF remote controls. It just has a cheap little 4mm x 4mm sizes chip inside. It can learn and play back RF codes no prob at all… It probably only has 200kb of firmware in it.

AU $2.23 45% Off | 2020 New Universal Cloning Duplicator Key Fob A Distance Remote Control 433MHZ Clone Fixed Learning Code For Gate Garage Door

I just don’t understand why Homey can’t do what this cheap Chinese universal remote can do ?

Athom told its customers a few years ago that it was a corporate decision for Homey to not have remote learning capabilities. Their reasoning behind this (according to them) was “we think customers will get confused by it” .

They then back flipped a couple of years ago and said they “would’ incorporate learning into the system but they never ended up doing it… (they sort of started doing it with IR) but it’s as good as not existing at all.

Going by their past statements one can only logically conclude that there’s no hardware limitation that’s physically stoping Homey from being to be able to learn / play back RF codes and it should only take a software fix… Why would they say they were going to add it in , if it’s not physically possible…

Both devices don’t learn-and-playback raw codes, they support a specific set of (cheap, often-used) RF tx chips and know how to interpret the data sent by them.

Like you said, I don’t think there’s a technical reason why Homey can’t do this either, there are plenty of open source libraries that can be used to implement support for these chips. It wouldn’t surprise me though that the software handling the existing RF part hasn’t changed much over the years and that the original developer(s) is long gone. Sort of a “wouldn’t dare touch it” situation.

Thanks for the info.

I’m sort of familiar with how RF gear works but I’m still learning…

From my understanding , as you say , all RF devices need an interpretive layer to handle the receiving and transmission side of things as it not just pure binary data that’s being dealt with but also how the RF part is performed during the actual RF transmission of the code … Timing , pulse widths etc etc

I probably could of worded things better in my previous post but in a sense what goes over the air is “sort” of raw data. It contains all the data in it. It just needs to be interpreted, but your technically correct there. The data is only truly “raw” when it’s stored in memory.

Here’s an example of a stored raw code I use to turn on a RF relay that’s connected to one of my out door lights.

AA B0 21 03 08 0168 0410 2A80 28181908190818190819090819081819081908181818181908 55

In the end if all it takes is to just add 200Kb of freely available open source software such as Portisch and incorporate it into the system that can interpret ingoing and outgoing RF transmissions (and also same with IR) then I guess there is no financial or technical hardware excuse for Athom to not do it… They said they would…

Or are they still worried it will “confuse customers”. Lol :joy:

It is possible, they just need to get off their butt . :roll_eyes:

Yes, You’re right, IR is limited with the line of sight. But this is valid for all systems, using IR as a carrier medium. And just because of that there is a interest to have Homey also IR-capable.
Let’s go personal :wink:
I have Homey and i also have a Harmony hub from Logitech. Working quite well together (Homey is “The Boss”)… BUT, i have Harmony in my TV room, Homey is located in workroom. They (rooms) do not “IR” each other. In workroom i have two blandishments:

  1. To automate a old Kenwood VRS-N8100 (as this is connected as Room-2 to TV-rooms receiver, then just cards to switch on/off and set input are required
  2. To use a old/cheap IR control to start some flows

So, the point 1 - yeah, may-be another Harmony, which one may be more expensive than the old Kenwood… or just to teach to Homey ~4 commands to send (yes, they sitting together, around 30cm away)

Point 2 - also solvable with “Z-bee” switches/controllers, costing… for 21 buttons ~100…200€ instead of already have IR remote.

Just for info, on my Homey model 2016 (v1) I can teach custom ir-remote buttons, but only when it’s enabled in the Apps ‘Experiments’ settings.

That (looks like) it works, and you can send that signal using a a flow card. But none of my devices respond to any copied signal.
Early 2019 non-pro