Athom's Decision for Mobile First and removing of the Desktop Interface/WEB UI in Homey v2.0.0

… and the real problem was it wasn’t one of the options :thinking:

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Well that’s highly hypothetical… and as it is, it doesn’t matter at all. … and furthermore -
If we stay hypothetical- then a simple WebApp would’ve been of course very much more at cutting edge of technology and the way of choice. That’s how companies face the multiple OS challenge…
At least last year when I was working with UIs it was the case… Of course - as the webapp is just fantasy right now - It doesn’t matter as well.

Mario, So you are inferring that a company which used webAPP technology arbitrarily decided to drop support for it, rewrite their entire core and then spend over 12 months changing their technology - because they no longer wanted to use the ‘cutting edge’ technology and preferred to use an inferior technology?

Or perhaps web technologies are inherently restrictive in what they can do …

Edit : This will be my last post here.

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Well, there you have it again.

I think you are number four or five to put all people that are honest to say that they miss it and don’t understand the choice in a corner as “azijnzeikers”, whiners or therapeutic complainers. And that in a thread that is exactly meant to do it here and nowhere else.

I could say in my turn that all people that are fine by managing an expensive device that has major possibilities only via a small mobile screen are myopic and opportunists, but what’s the point in that?

And indeed, this IS a COMMUNITY forum. Not a forum for only people that MUST have the same opinion. Everybody is entitled to have his/her own opinion. If that is not possible anymore in a community then the community doesn’t have a right to exist.

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that is exactly the same shit im dealing with haha.
im also using my pen and paper to remember.
especialiy when adding a new device in a existing flow.

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Little tip, just to get rid of the pen and paper: [HOW TO] View your Homey v2 flows in a browser

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Just a bandaid solution though

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Well, that’s a nice way of showing appreciation for the work of a non Athom related developer developing stuff in his spare time!

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It’s called a workaround. Calling it a band-aid solution is blaming him for not dealing with the cause.
But it’s not his fault it disappeared and he can’t do anything about the cause. He just kindly offers a solution to work around the lack of the interface.

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Don’t think @Xtasy meant to imply that :slight_smile: He knows how the wheels turn :slight_smile:

Naaah, don’t get me wrong guys. We all know how quickly we get into black/white interpretation in chats / forums due to its limited possibilities of transporting non-verbal signals. So to be clear:

WebApp has good sides and bad sides as well.
To quickly cover a community of large OS- and devices-diversity it makes of course sense to say: “mobile first”. Or “WebApp” first.

I feel more and more being forced by sentences here in the forum that say (or mean) “Try to see it from the developers POV”. No. Strictly No.
I am pretty familiar w/ the way projects work when driven by IT instead of strategy. It simply gets less intuitive and while Marketing and Sales teams keep saying what the people want, it just doesn’t put the focus on what it should (has to!) be: Customer first. Period.

It’s about time to consider about that; again - don’t get me wrong: there are some work arounds. Okay. There are still bugs and issues and stuff. Okay as well.

But it’s not the right road to tell all Users (that want to remain users and don’t wanna get pulled to deep into the architecture behind) that they have to understand, change their POV or highly appreciate everything that Athom does. If the device wouldn’t be 300€ - then perhaps, yes, maybe. But a free, fully functional and regularly mantained App is not optional. It’s mandatory.

And as It’s a community forum: If it’s not for users and their belongings, needs and questions - then it might be the wrong forum.

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nice thanks for the tip!!

Can i be number 3?

I bought Homey because of the Windows client - and no I did not read 83 pages of blogs to find out that the GUI would go away.

That should in reality have been marked with BIG letters on Athom’s web page where it was listed as a unique feature even when I bought mine.

But in reality there is no excuse for not having a Windows GUI. These days multiplatform development platforms make it quite easy to develop across Android, iOS & Windows with only little extra work required. But many still makes “Small Screen” app’s - and then just skin them for tablets – giving a lousy User Experience on tablets. So I still have high hopes that Athom really designs Tablet interface that can exceed the Windows usability.

There are some other Homey issues. The sand-boxing is good in some ways - but highly wasteful in regards to memory and resources. That should have been the main focus for the re-development. But Athom’s solution was to make a new Homey with more memory to offset the bad sandbox design.

3rd party app’s - there are lots of lovely app’s - but there are also a lot of “forgotten” apps that no longer gets serviced and updated. The best way to solve that issue is to find a way to compensate developers. That could be donations managed by Athom - with source code kept in “escrow” so if a developer stops development - others can continue and get future revenue. So a Git hosted/owned by Athom.

I’m not angry with Athom for crippling V2 - I’m just disappointed - I thought I found my future home controller and now I have to start searching again. Until then I’ll stay on 1.5.13 unless something really useful makes its way from Athom like a great made tablet interface.

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So now we are forced to use a ‘cloud’. I thought homey was for ‘home’ usage, not clouds.

The system info I’m missing is the ‘geek stuff’. In the past this info helped me to detect and solve time sync problems (npt sync did not work on homey).

It is a pity, the impression given at kickstarter time was that homey would also be an open and ‘for geeks’ apparatus. Now it seems to be a ‘we know what is good for you’ policy.
I would never have supported this project if I had known it would go this way.

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Yes agreed, let everyone decide for them selves. Today we have the choice of using the app, using the app, or using the app. Which one shall I choose :tired_face:

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In essence there is not much changed regarding cloud usage between 1.x and 2.0.
If you look at it your insights are still stored on Homey. Only that Insights app is a hosted web page (URL) centrally maintained by Athom. When loaded your browser provides you the view of your data from Homey. You could name it some kind of web interface only limited now to the insights.

I think almost all info from the stuff for geeks is available. Most from the app, some only from the developer web-interface. The ntp settings them self have not been available there. Personally I am missing the detailed IP configuration for the various pseudo Interfaces including the IPv6 addresses. I admit I am very geeky… Can you tell me the other info that is missing and was available before?

Again I can’t aggree… The openess in honey in 1.5.x and before and now with 2.0 did not really change for what I see. Yes many APIs are now better documented and stricter in consistency. Also many functions are more secure or require a higher default privilege to prevent ‘un-authorized’ changes in flows or settings. But Homey self wasn’t open before and the APIs and Apps SDK are updated and more mature.
I don’t remember Athom advertising something as an open system (like you can fiddle with in fe rasbian or any Linux system)
But with the SDK and API I guess you can do functional the same now with 2.0 as before in Homey v1.x. Please let me know if I missed anything!

Almost… I guess they know what is best for them. It is their company and they need to earn money. Imo it is great that I still don’t have to pay subscriptions or buy it with a energy contract. I am sure the have choose carefully between the for them possible options to have the best chance to survive in the current domotica market.

Personally I like to make flows on a big computer screen, I use Windows most of the day. But I see their decision as a good and necessary step. I use Nox now on the PC but also Athoms app split screen on my Android tablet.
I prefer not to complain about this, I already started to look at the way I can extend Homey’s functionality like homeyDa.sh and the spinoff to create a web based flow editor or Erik’s flow viewer or how I can support them as I am in now way a good web developer.

I think only a positive vibe and constructive work by the community can boost the growth of Athom so they can hire more developers and surprise us with new awesome features.

Good point taking it out of context … My point was you don’t have to agree and decide by yourself what you think is best. as quoted:

You can choose to agree with Joakim_Andersson or just have your own opinion. You choose…

You can also choose to stay disappointed, angry, or…
Or be just adaptive as there is a big market for gadgets used from the evil phones… You don’t have to like it as there is nothing better for you now.
Choose for an other system that provides a nice web interface of suites your requirements better than Homey now does.
Choose to be constructive and help make Homey better and maybe find enough enthusiast’s to build a community web interface.

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So we have still have a ‘web’ app for insights, although via a roundabout way. Strange.

You seem to be knowledgeable about the whole ecosystem, so I guess you know what you could see in the geek stuff screen. I can’t show you anymore cause my homey now runs 2.0 and I cant’ seem to go back to 1.5.

Yes homey wasn’t as open as the impression it gave during the kickstarter project (when you show all the detailed pictures of the homey circuity etc you surely give the impression it will become a very open system) and I did not use it as much as I would have wanted/expected.

Today homey is nothing more that other domotica controllers in the world and that soon will be dominated by the googles and alike. Why? Cause homey is just as limited and closed as those giants.
Look for example to the dreambox world (satellite receivers/multimedia boxes). The choose to build the hardware and initial firmware and opened up the sources so external developer teams could create
updated firmwares. (yes dreambox itself is more or less dead but that is caused by mismanagement in other areas…)

I’m not angy, disappoited maybe, but mostly I feel sorry for athom to go that way.
Although I like the whole hardware concept, I’ll find other ways to do home automation if their policy does not change. And who knows I’ll open up the box and see what I can reuse in that case…

So yes this meant to be constructive, but choose your own way to interpret this.

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Well, on the other hand Homey got more open: Athom focusses on the API and lets us decide what to do with the data.

Homey 's API is as open as can be, you can do litterly everything with their API, everything you see on the developer pages, everything you see in the mobile app, it is all possible to recreate using the (web) API, as they all use the API themselves.

I don’t see Google, or any other controller have this amount of change ability with their api, not even in the slightest.

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