When criticism is treated as disruption, a community stops being a community

You are drifting away from the point I was making.

I was talking specifically about the official support process. @Doekse has stated himself that he is not part of the support team. Therefore, his requests in this forum cannot simply be counted as repeated requests from support.

As far as the actual support case is concerned, I submitted one diagnostic report on my own initiative and was asked once to provide another one, which I did.

Whether @Doekse separately asked for information in this thread is a different matter and does not change my criticism of how the official support ticket was handled.

No, of course I do not expect tickets to remain open forever.

The point is that I believed I was the one waiting for a reply regarding my unresolved Matter problem. I expected either a request for another diagnostic report, a suggestion to test something specific, or simply an update saying that the investigation required more time.

I received none of those.

@Doekse, I also checked my spam folder, and there is no missing email there. While any message can theoretically be filtered incorrectly, this was an existing email conversation with a known sender, so suggesting the spam folder does not explain what happened unless Athom can confirm that a specific message was actually sent.

My criticism is not that the ticket was eventually closed. It is that I was not aware that Athom was waiting for a response from me, while I was still waiting for Athom to follow up on the unresolved Matter issue.

But wait—aren’t we drifting away from the actual topic?

This thread was not originally about my Matter problems or about the details of how individual support tickets are handled.

It was about closing an active, serious, calm and technically interesting discussion simply because it may have become uncomfortable for the company.

Instead of addressing that concern, the discussion is now being redirected towards how many diagnostic reports were requested, whether an email may have landed in spam, and whether a support ticket should remain open indefinitely.

Those may be separate topics worth discussing, but they do not answer the original question: Why was a constructive discussion closed when users were calmly exchanging experiences and technical observations?

A discussion should not be closed merely because it contains criticism or raises uncomfortable questions. As long as it remains respectful and relevant, that is exactly the kind of discussion a support forum should allow.

Do you even want to be helped? sounds more like you don’t want to be helped.

if it is you → support → dev team,
or you → doekse → dev team,
the end result is the same, you getting helped.

The point of this thread was that the previous topic was closed, which you disagreed on, so you are also drifting away from the original topic titel.

So in the end, no-one has been helped by this thread, which happend now once in like 5 years time or something.
So making a complete topic, about a once in a long time thing…

Here’s the answer! Should I mark the question/thread as solved?

But that is precisely the point: you do not currently see sufficient value in continuing the discussion, while many of the users actively participating in it clearly do.

@ulrikb and @Rammstein, among others, have replied here and explained their disappointment and concerns. For us, this has not been an unproductive discussion. It has allowed users to compare experiences, explore possible causes and better understand what may be happening.

Your focus appears to be primarily on whether the thread is moving directly towards an immediate solution. However, a useful technical discussion does not always follow such a straight path. It may also examine possible architectural limitations, hardware design decisions, implementation choices or patterns that are not yet fully understood.

Those broader discussions can sometimes provide a new perspective or reveal a possible direction that was not obvious at the beginning. Even when they do not produce an immediate fix, they may still help users understand the problem and may also provide valuable feedback for the future development of the product.

In real life, discussions rarely remain perfectly confined to the question with which they started. A conversation about a hardware problem may eventually lead to ideas for designing a better network, at which point the original problem may no longer even be the central subject. Conversations over coffee may briefly drift towards the weather or the colour of the carpet before returning to something useful. That does not automatically make them worthless.

The important question should therefore not be whether the discussion follows one person’s preferred path towards a solution. It should be whether it remains active, respectful and meaningful to the people participating in it.

Closing such a discussion because it does not match the company’s view of how it should progress risks appearing dismissive of the users who are investing their time and knowledge in it.

Ultimately, it is also a question of respect: whether a calm and constructive community discussion is allowed to continue even when it develops in a direction that Athom did not originally expect or find comfortable.

And if you’d like to continue discussing any of the topics that came up in the thread, which originally started with the simple question; “Why are my Matter devices offline?”, please feel free to start new topics in the appropriate sections of the community forum.

As mentioned before, we don’t close threads because they’re critical or because “we at Athom don’t like them.” I closed this thread because it no longer followed the Homey Community Forum rules about staying on topic. That’s not my personal opinion; it’s simply how the forum is moderated.

Over time, the discussion shifted away from troubleshooting the Matter issue and into topics such as whether I should or shouldn’t be active on the forum during my holiday, customer support, moderation, and our communication. Those are (almost) all perfectly valid topics to discuss, but they deserve their own threads so they’re easier for others to find, follow, and contribute to. At that point the discussion was no longer addressing the original support question, which is why I decided to close the thread.

In my professional life, I spent a great deal of time managing teams and de-escalating conflicts. One of the most important lessons I learned was to avoid making disagreements personal and to focus instead on actions, decisions and consistent standards.

However, I find that increasingly difficult in this discussion because your explanation does not appear to be applied as a general principle.

If staying strictly on topic is the standard being enforced, then I have several questions:

  • Why were you and other participants allowed to redirect this thread towards my support ticket, diagnostic reports, spam filters and other matters that were not the original subject?

  • Does this mean that anyone can now introduce unrelated content into a discussion and thereby provide a reason for the entire thread to be closed?

  • Do you recognise that some of the posts and moderation decisions in this discussion do not appear to be consistent with the forum rules you are citing?

  • Would you agree that forum rules are intended to provide a general and consistently applied framework, rather than being enforced selectively only when a discussion develops in an inconvenient direction?

Rules naturally give moderators discretion. However, that discretion must be applied consistently and fairly. Otherwise, users may reasonably feel that the rules are being used to justify a decision after it has already been made.

Now that I have said what I felt could no longer remain unsaid, I also want to make something clear: I respect your willingness to help, the time you invest in the community and you as a person.

What I cannot respect is the way this particular discussion has been moderated. In my view, it has not been neutral, consistent or sufficiently respectful towards the users who were participating calmly and seriously.

Then perhaps Athom should delegate a member of the support team to actually converse with users, in the Homey Community Forum. Not the partnerships manager.

Just a thought guys

It seems like this topic was only created to spread negativity and complain about basically everything. I would suggest @Doekse to close it.

Did you actually read my opening post?

Does this sound like someone who created a topic merely to spread negativity?

Do you think I developed five Homey apps because I see nothing positive in the platform?

I developed them because I like the concept, believe in its potential and wanted to contribute something useful to the community. That does not mean I must ignore the platform’s weaknesses or remain silent when users encounter serious and recurring problems.

Supporting a product does not mean praising everything unconditionally. Constructive criticism is also a form of engagement, especially when it comes from users who have invested considerable time and effort in the platform.

Are negative experiences no longer allowed to be discussed simply because they are uncomfortable? And is closing threads really the appropriate response whenever criticism becomes persistent?

Calling this topic “negativity” avoids addressing the actual concerns raised in it.

Yes, and it was a waste of my time to read an AI generated post. I mean, the "—"s (em dashes) say enough.

Yes, to me at least. But whatever you meant by creating this topic, the topic has shifted towards complaints only, which IMO is a valid reason to close a topic.

Calling complaints and negativity “criticism” is an attempt to avoid getting this topic closed by moderators :wink:

Perhaps it would be more useful to respond to the actual arguments instead of trying to discredit them based on punctuation.

We will see.

If this calm discussion is closed merely because it contains persistent criticism, Athom will have answered the question of how it handles criticism through its own actions more clearly than I ever could.

Well, then I would actually suggest @Doekse to ask another moderator (@moderators ) to close it. Then at least it isn’t Athom who closes the topic :wink:

Bashing people for being negative and then responding with clear passive aggression and wink emojis, isn’t doing you any favours.

This will be my final post in this discussion, and it will be a longer one.

I believe that I have now explained my arguments clearly, and most of them have at least been answered in part.

@Doekse has stated clearly that threads are closed when they drift away from their original topic. That is presented as a forum rule. However, I have also shown that he himself sometimes participates in such side discussions and may underestimate how easily a reply from another user can naturally lead a conversation in a different direction.

We are repeatedly asked to remain strictly focused on the original subject, but this overlooks the fact that we are human beings with social needs.

In my professional life, I encountered a similar strategy that was often called a “speed meeting.” A meeting was limited to one narrowly defined subject and perhaps twenty minutes. The limited time was intended to prevent side discussions and lengthy explanations and to force everyone to remain focused.

I rarely saw companies succeed with that approach.

Human success depends on building relationships, empathy and, in the best case, mutual sympathy. I would like to illustrate that with an anecdote from my professional life.

Once, I spent two hours in a meeting because technical equipment that we had recommended to a client did not meet requirements that the client had only formulated after placing the order.

I left the meeting without a technical solution and without even a workable compromise.

Later, during a coffee break, I met a young colleague. We spoke about the weather, her holidays and other completely unrelated matters. In doing so, we renewed the social connection between us.

At some point, she asked how my project was progressing, and I explained the problem to her in a few simple words.

She had no deep involvement in the project and therefore brought a fresh outside perspective. She simply said:

“Who even wants such an old-fashioned conference system today? Modern conferences are more like events, with multiple video streams, scene lighting and speakers moving in front of the screen.”

That was the moment everything became clear.

I invited the client to attend a modern conference. Afterwards, I noticed a painful expression on his face and asked him what was wrong.

He replied:

“After seeing this, I want exactly that. But our brand-new and expensive equipment cannot even deliver our original, old-fashioned requirements. Now I am even more disappointed.”

I answered:

“No, sir. Your equipment is advanced enough to do exactly what you have just seen, and potentially to do it even better.”

The point of this story is that remaining strictly focused on the original technical problem did not produce the solution.

The solution came through a social interaction, an apparently irrelevant conversation, a less technical but more practical perspective and a colleague who felt enough sympathy and interest to help.

We build similar connections here.

We develop sympathy for one another, exchange experiences and become willing to help other users, and sometimes even the company behind a system that many of us genuinely appreciate.

Yes, this naturally creates side discussions. We exchange ideas, explore possibilities and see where the conversation leads. We make suggestions and ask others what they think. Some of us also exchange private messages containing findings from reverse engineering, packet captures, traffic analysis and other technical investigations.

That is not a weakness of a community. It is one of its greatest strengths.

What hurts deeply is when support or staff members interpret such developments as negativity, conspiracy theories or unproductive discussion.

The same applies when certain users enter serious discussions primarily to defend the company, dismiss the reported experiences of others or provoke the participants instead of contributing anything useful.

One example is the repeated accusation that posts are AI-generated.

In other discussions, it has already been explained to the same person that I am not a native English speaker and that I use AI to translate, structure and improve the English expression of my own thoughts. The arguments, experiences and opinions remain mine.

Nevertheless, the same accusation is repeated again and again, as though punctuation or polished English somehow invalidates the content.

Instead of closing entire discussions because they have developed beyond their original narrow subject, moderators should intervene when individual users contribute nothing except provocation, personal attacks or comments intended to derail and hurt a serious conversation.

Despite everything that has happened, I have formed new connections through this discussion, and I believe some of them will survive this unfortunate situation.

What I regret most is not simply that one thread was closed using arguments that I find inconsistent.

What I regret most is that my enthusiasm for Homey is beginning to disappear.

The energy I am willing to invest in developing for this platform has already fallen to a minimum. I have always been driven by curiosity, new challenges and the desire to build something useful. But that curiosity does not disappear when one platform becomes frustrating; it simply begins to look for new horizons.

My interest is increasingly being drawn towards other systems, other technologies and communities where technical curiosity, constructive criticism and voluntary contributions feel more welcome and appreciated.

That is perhaps the most unfortunate consequence of all this. Homey is not only at risk of losing a dissatisfied user. It is at risk of losing someone who genuinely believed in the concept, developed five apps for the platform and was still willing to invest time, knowledge and enthusiasm in helping it improve.

A system is ultimately only as good as the people, culture and values behind it. And when confidence in those begins to fade, enthusiasm for the technology itself eventually follows.

Nope. That’s a Ticket System automation. Nothing more.

Edit: Somehow I missed the first sentence of your last message. This renders the rest of my answer obsolete. :grimacing:

Wow! For Hubitat users like me, who occasionally visit Homey’s community forum, reading this thread is like deja vu. It was only a few months ago that the same thing unfolded on Hubitat’s community forum.

Apparently, it is difficult for some people to distinguish between the theoretical and practical reaches of specific automation technologies.

I do not really see the déjà vu.

The two situations are quite different.

In this thread, the disagreement was primarily about technical issues and about closing an active discussion because, in the moderator’s view, it was no longer contributing directly enough towards finding a solution. The thread has since been reopened, and the moderator concerned is now personally engaged and making a genuine effort to investigate the problem.

For me, that essentially settles the matter.

The Hubitat discussion was about something very different. One of the central issues was how Hubitat presented its Matter certification status on its website while the hub itself was not certified at that time. That raised legitimate questions about what customers were being led to believe.

There was also a broader technical discussion about Hubitat’s Matter implementation, including its reliance on device-specific drivers. My criticism was that this approach seemed fundamentally at odds with one of Matter’s main ideas: standardised device types and capabilities reducing the need for vendor-specific integrations.

That does not mean I ever claimed Hubitat was a bad product.

Quite the opposite. I have repeatedly said that the hardware is very good, its stability is almost legendary, and Rule Machine is extremely powerful. My criticism was mainly directed at the user interface, parts of the implementation and, ultimately, the way critical discussions were handled.

I eventually left because I increasingly felt pushed into a corner by moderation and because discussions were closed when they became uncomfortable for the company rather than merely technically unproductive. That was my experience, and it was an important part of my decision to move on.

With Homey, my situation is very different.

I have developed five apps for the platform because I genuinely like the concept. Advanced Flow, the interface and the overall philosophy of the system appeal to me a great deal. I have criticised Homey where I believe criticism is justified, but that does not change the fact that I want the platform to succeed.

The thread we are discussing was reopened. The moderator is engaging with the technical problem. I was not the only participant who felt uncomfortable with the original decision to close it, but globally I still find this community considerably less defensive and less confrontational towards critical users than the Hubitat forum was in my experience.

I had actually intended not to add anything further to this subject.

However, this is now the second time that our old disagreement from the Hubitat forum has been brought into another community. The first time was shortly after I moved to Homey, when you also joined this forum, apparently to follow me and stork me.

Apparently I left quite an impression. :wink:

But at some point, old forum disputes should simply be allowed to remain in the forum where they happened. I have moved on, and I would appreciate it if we could leave the Hubitat chapter there as well.

Apparently not. Interestingly, it’s the same problem you’ve encountered elsewhere. My sense of deja vu deepens.