[Discussion to Solution] How can community App builders be rewarded?

[Arie_J_Godschalk]

@Till

you must not misunderstand me. I thought it was an open discussion and I stated my point of view

It is and thanks for the insights!

[xeeder]

They should update there apps that has been made when they got paid for it.
I see it like this:
If they make an app and they ask money for it, they make a commitment to develop their apps including when updates arrive.

If a developer don’t want to update there app, they have been paid for their services and someone else can maybe update there app or make a new app for sdk3. (And ask money for the app again).

It’s a difficult discussion. But I do think there should be a system where developers can be paid for there work.

I’m saying this as a user of Homey. I’m not a developer.
Athom should really think about a system that could reward the developers.

[Till]

Problem is that the developers live in a symbiosis with Athom. And vice versa. One payment is Okay from my point of view…a yearly or monthly payment ruled out. Nobody would accept that and change system with no or lower extra costs. The good think of Homey is, that it is easy to handle for beginners. HA is not. If HA would be as easy as Homey… it would be a very difficult market for any competitor. One could consider maybe to make yearly payment of e.g. EURO 25, which than will be distributed by a sharing key to developers. Leaves the question open what happens to apps which are discontinued?

[Arie_J_Godschalk]

@Till

One payment is Okay from my point of view…a yearly or monthly payment ruled out. Nobody would accept that and change system with no or lower extra costs.

As a developer and user, i fully agree to that.

[Askeo]

Hi all

My random out of brain concept is to let users pay if they WANT a month subscription of i dont know 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 or custom Euros and this pool of money will be automatically transferred and fair splittet(or per usage) to all installed apps, but this should not be a force to use this model.

All based on free will.

[Undertaker]

I have started a similar discussion in the German forum. Since many of our Dutch developers can read German, there may be suggestions here as well.

Community Entwickler bezahlen?

Im englischen Forum diskutieren gerade Community Entwickler, dass sie relativ wenig Spenden für ihre Arbeit bekommen. Das ist für manche wenig motivierend, die Apps auf dem neuesten Stand zu halten und ihre Zeit zu opfern. Es werden hier Vorschläge gemacht, die von einem jährlichen Abo Modell, bis zur Einmalzahlung reichen. Was haltet ihr prinzipiell davon, die Community Entwickler für ihre Apps zu bezahlen ? Wie könnte so etwas aussehen ? Welchen Preis würdet ihr dafür akzeptieren ? Würden d…

[Nick_Pauwels]

Here’s an idea… App store. Developers could add a price for their apps to be downloaded. The choice stays with the developer to add a cost for the app or not. Homey gets a share for hosting the platform. Devs get paid for their work. Benefits all. (Probably mentioned somewhere already, on mobile ATM with limited search capabilities )

[Paul]

Hello,

Am I right, that this discussion started because one developer asked for a new Homey 2023, for updating and maintaining his App’s (“forced” or not) and not for personal use? (He doesn’t use Homey himself …).

Emile said:

SDKv2 apps won’t stop working on Homey Pro (Early 2019) or earlier. Even when restoring a backup they will be restored.

Meaning the issue (SDKv3 updating) is heavily related, (only?) to the New Homey 2023.

So I think Homey should become active and consider a (big) discount for the concerning developers when they “need” a New Homey 2023.

And a more visible donation Paid-tag in the App’s, should do the rest.

I am not a developer, but I do a lot of volunteer work in our local community (not Homey ) for free, because I like to do so.

[Nick_Pauwels]

What sparked the discussion does not matter in my opinion. But this could be a chance to attract more developers and greater app diversity. An app store would provide incentive for people to code apps and maintain them. Homey could also monetize their platform bringing a more sustainable model outside of selling hardware. And the users benefit from both these things.

Developers would still be able to choose the price point for the app. And if they want even provide the app for free.

In general, we must recognize the efforts of the app developers that made homey the device it is today.

[DaneedeKruyff]

Now let’s look at it from another perspective.

You’re a consumer that want’s to start with home automation. You look at different available options and one of them is Homey. You discover (if you do your due diligence) that after buying a Homey you have to download apps to get your devices connected to Homey. Some are free, but others require payment. For most in this community this seems reasonable, but if I was a customer comparing options I would add a minus to Homey.

To me an App Store requiring a payment doesn’t sound like a good option, making the apps free and asking user to donate does. And remember you’re appreciating work done by donating, not getting the right to demand for features and updates.

[Nick_Pauwels]

Valid point. But another point that I as a consumer consider is how active the dev community is and how healthy the company is financially. A paid app store works towards improving both.

Let me add another question. What incentive is there now for a developer to add support for a niche brand they don’t own themselves and is too small for athom to support themselves?

Also, I want to add that you’re right on the donation thing. It is an appreciation and not payment for a service. Both options should be supported, donations alongside purchases. If it’s a product I purchase I do want a working product and some support in terms of updates. The same cannot be asked for free apps. (Which I hope people would still donate for)

[RonnyW]

@Nick_Pauwels

What incentive is there now for a developer to add support for a niche brand they don’t own themselves and is too small for athom to support themselves?

I would say that only happens if someone has a device and is missing a brand in the app store, builds his own app and finally publish it in the store.
This way many Homey developer started - including me

[Caseda]

@Nick_Pauwels

Let me add another question. What incentive is there now for a developer to add support for a niche brand they don’t own themselves and is too small for athom to support themselves?

I don’t think a paid app will improve on that either, say 1 euro per app, and 50 users is still only 50 euro for both parties, say 40 euro for the developer as Athom would want some too, that’s for a lot of work for pretty much no money, so still no incentive to develop.

[Peter_Kawa]

@Paul

And a more visible donation Paid-tag in the App’s, should do the rest.

Do you mean in the app configuration, or in the app store pages?
For the app store,
Maybe this button, should be green as well, or just the heart colored red.

[Nick_Pauwels]

Price point would be up to the developer though, if its a general purpose app, that adds functionality then (not device specific) I’d consider 1 eur reasonable. However if its an app that, for instance, controls my pellet stove made by an italian supplier, where there may only be 10-50 other users in the community, I think a higher price point is reasonable.

[Arie_J_Godschalk]

@Caseda

I don’t think a paid app will improve on that either, say 1 euro per app, and 50 users is still only 50 euro for both parties, say 40 euro for the developer as Athom would want some too, that’s for a lot of work for pretty much no money, so still no incentive to develop.

Well, may i say, personally for me, if you develop an App that only 50 users use, you probably a) had a bad idea or b) it’s a very specifiek App which not many users will need, but you made it for yourself and want to share it with everyone.

Like all my published apps were (b, not a i hope).
But 50 bugs would be still more then i recieved now for most apps.

So, i wouldn’t have expected it, i published them to share what the Homey environment lets me create for myself freelly. But 50 bugs per app would have been great, al my apps have (way) more then 50 users.

Just my thoughts

[Arie_J_Godschalk]

And, if i may add, what frustrates me a little: i feel (and can see) that most donations are made by people active on this forum.

Can’t we let (mostly) “the other ones pay”?

N.b. The once’s that are not (active) on this Forum.

[Caseda]

Thats why it is a niche brand, as I responded to said comment niche brand is a brand that’s only a small percentage of users will have, and of those users about 25% don’t want to pay any money for it, 50+% will complain that it will cost money, but still pay it cause they “have to”.
People always complain if something costs money, just look at the backlash from Homey backups when that was introduced.
The amount that said the same about advanced flows was a lot less though.

Homey definitely wouldn’t have the (size) user base it has now if xx percentage of apps would be payed.
Maybe Homey wouldn’t even be there anymore as there are other “free”/cheaper options, maybe less options in terms of devices and abilities, but a lot of things are able to be worked around for.

[Nick_Pauwels]

just look at the backlash from Homey backups when that was introduced.

The difference here being that everyone (should) understand(s) that the apps are maintained by private individuals rather than the company owning the hardware and platform.

[DaneedeKruyff]

@Nick_Pauwels

that adds functionality then (not device specific) I’d consider 1 eur reasonable.

Would this also go for, let’s say Heimdall? Thousends of users use this app to protect their home. They spend a couple of hundreds on Homey, some hundreds more on sensors and the software they use is worth €1,00.

Or Power by the Hour, do you know it’s potential in costsaving? Or the Heating Scheduler or Better Logic and many more I’m forgetting here.